DIBELS and the Seductive Lure of Snake Oil
It’s snake oil time. I started to write this last month when I heard they’d be coming around again, but I couldn’t find the link to the DIBELS homepage. Thanks to Doug Johnson for pointing the way. Things are more interesting today. This morning I read Doug’s call for more testing.
Doug also recently posted a link to a post written by Ken Goodman on a mailing list at Stephen Krashen’s site, which I’m now subscribed to. Professor Goodman wrote sarcastically about the power of the DIBELS (Dynamic Indicators of Basic Early Literacy Skills). He said that DIBELS is the perfect test in the same sense that Katrina might have been the perfect storm. Since both of these links (to Goodman/Krashen and the call for more testing) point to opposite points on the testing compass, I should probably quit here and let them cancel each other out. But I wanted to say something about DIBELS.
I liked Ken Goodman’s statement for its ironic edge.
It’s basic premise is that it can reduce reading development to a series of tasks, each measurable in one minute. Each test has arbitrary benchmarks which get more difficult to achieve in successive grades. The test authors claim that the sub-tests are “stepping stones” to reading proficiency and each prepares the child for the next test.
Snake oil is a derogatory term for any generic “patent medicine” used as a cure-all. I’d say that DIBELS fits the definition. My first experience with it came a couple of years ago when I was asked if I wanted to administer the test to fourth graders. I didn’t know anything about it so I asked for some information and I was directed to the website where I eventually found the page describing the reading fluency test.
Goodman’s description accurately represents what is on the page and what I’ve seen:
Oral Reading Fluency. Starting in first grade the children are given a five paragraph essay on a topic written in first person. The score is the number of words read correctly in one minute. The children learn to skip any words they don’t know and say the words they know as fast as they can. The tester says any word the child stops at after a few seconds. Some children use that as a signal that they should wait for the tester to say the word before proceeding. And a minute goes by very rapidly.
Oral Retelling Fluency. Teachers complained that counting correct words didn’t show what the children understood. So the DIBELS folks added an oral retelling. The score is the number of words the kids produce in one minute that are more or less on topic. No attention is paid to the quality of the retelling. Honest.
As you can see, this test does not measure anything but raw behavior. It’s a step back in time. As a teacher what I get when it’s over is a list of my students’ names with a number under columns headed ORF and RF. One set for Fall and one set for Winter. Since all of the numbers are higher now, I’m supposed to feel good about doing such a great job. But what did I do? I don’t know! When I ask the question about how this test is going to help me as a teacher, I hear “It’s just another piece of information. It’s like a snapshot.”
My response, “Yeah. A snapshot of the back of each kid’s head.”
“Hey. Their scores are up. Don’t complain. Just keep doing what you do.”
I didn’t want to give the test. But I found out that whether I gave it or not, the kids would take it. So now someone comes in and walks the kids one at a time down the hall and sends them back 5-10 minutes later. No big deal, right?
I don’t see it like that. First of all, the tests are meaningless. They’re meaningless to me anyway, but I wonder about how my students feel about them. They watch us all the time, and not only do we teach them how to read and write and do math, we also convey our beliefs about those subjects. If the kids are taking tests to see how fast they can read and talk, they will naturally assume that we want them to read fast. Fast is good. Talking is good. It doesn’t even matter what you say, as long as it’s on topic. I wonder what else we can measure simply by timing it? Heh!
As to Doug’s claim that “What gets tested, gets taught,” if it’s taught because it’s tested, what typically gets taught is not the skills or content, but test-taking itself. And we have NO say in how it’s tested when it comes packaged like a patent cure. Doug claims that “we live in a society that believes in testing. And quite honestly, a degree of accountability shown through testing is not all bad,” However, he also points to a different post where he says
The general public believes such tests are reliable, objective and understandable despite the fact they measure only a few basic skills and penalize students who are poor test-takers. Assessment tools that assess higher level thinking skills and the application of skills are also necessary.
I don’t disagree with a word of that. I don’t see how we can endorse accountability using such primitive tools when the cost of their use is public misperception, institutional disruption, and personal grief to students who are being railroaded in the process. DIBELS is just one example of these things. Our energy is being totally misdirected on account of all this nonsense. We certainly don’t need MORE of it!
Instead of the DIBELS, teacher time in elementary school could be used to make checklists, and keep running records which are useful for miscue analysis. It would take about the same amount of time, and it would provide teachers with useful information about how students are processing written material. What DIBELS gives us is something like a “testing pill” that we can easily and painlessly use to get a measure. Never mind that it isn’t rational.
Update 2/10/2006: The DIBELS Clearinghouse is worth a look if you are searching for more opinion and commentary.
We feel good now, don’t we?

Teacher in Development :: ESL Snake Oil :: January :: 2006 wrote,
[...] Yesterday Doug sounded off on a test that I’ve never heard of, but I think his post is relevant for many of us today: DIBELS and the Seductive Lure of Snake Oil “…if it’s taught because it’s tested, what typically gets taught is not the skills or content, but test-taking itself.” (Borderland, 2006.) [...]
Link | January 11th, 2006 at 6:58 am
Marco Polo wrote,
if it’s taught because it’s tested, what typically gets taught is not the skills or content, but test-taking itself
You mentioned the article on Teaching Critical Thinking in a previous post so perhaps you read it already, but what you write here reminded me of this bit in that paper:
Link | January 11th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Doug wrote,
I couldn’t remember where I’d seen it. Excellent backup job!
Teaching elementary-age students I occasionally wonder what they’ll carry away, long-term from the time we spend together. One of my wise colleagues says, “They won’t remember you for what you taught them; they’ll remember you for how you made them feel.”
Humbling. Thanks for bringing back the reference.
Link | January 11th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
Artichoke wrote,
Interesting analysis Doug, we have a similar debate in our educational system in New Zealand - where assessment drives what is taught we end with a curriculum looking like an educational version of Kekule’s ouroboric snake.
You might enjoy the following paper by Prof John Hattie - most especially reference to his meta analysis on what makes a difference in student achievement section D http://www.knowledgewave.org.nz/forum_2003/speeches/Hattie%20J.pdf
Link | January 12th, 2006 at 1:27 am
Lisa Laser wrote,
I am glad to have found your snake oil account of dibels. If you google “dibel sucks” or “Lisa Laser dibels” you’ll find my family’s story at the (anti) dibels clearinghouse. We are also on Susan O’Hanian’s website. The title is “One Family’s Journey”. The convergence of three horrors: dibels, NCLB, and a terrible teacher, led us to homeschool our son. We are fortunate that we are able to homeschool. Public school is our only option where we live. I am a nonreligious liberal living in rural Oregon but we have managed to find a community of people who refuse to take the snake oil being forced on our schools. And snake oil it certainly is. I wonder how much the snake oil salemen are making? From what I have spent hours and hours reading there is a conflict of interest going on between the creators, publishers, and federal government in the use of dibels. I’m protected by freedom of speech for saying that, right??? Dibels is much worse than the above account describes because of what it is doing to real kids. It doesn’t matter if you’re shy, ADHD, reading above average already (although not a guarantee that you won’t fail the dibels tests), deaf, or the average child- the test is the same for all of them. I have a happy, outgoing, yet serious and contemplative child. Speed based testing at age six is abusive. Then there is the long list of misusing dibels by teachers. In the insane era of NCLB it is understandable but not acceptable that teachers are trying to gain test points by “teaching” dibels not just using it as a test. Kids are sent home with nonsense words to be drilled on. In my family’s case the teacher wanted to fail my son after 13 days of first grade because of his dibels scores. We had just moved and he had had an excellent year at kindergarten.
Ken Goodman has a publication coming out soon that I hope will help put an end to dibels. But although the two may be at “opposite points on the testing compass” it is dibels that is hurting our schools, our children and our teachers. Dibels is the one being used now and that makes all the difference between an idea and bad medicine.
Link | February 9th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Doug wrote,
Lisa, thank you for posting your story about abusive testing. If I had personal experience with schools such as yours, my kids would learning at home also. I am fortunate that I work in a place where the test is used as mere “information” that simply resides in a file. For most of the two decades I’ve taught, that is all standardized testing was about - information. But now “they’ve” put teeth on the tests and people are getting hurt. Unfortunately, DIBELS is only the tip of the iceberg. Literacy is being used as a weapon to subjugate and control. Under the guise of democratizing education, an unholy alliance of politically active cultural entities such as the “business community,” the “religious right,” and others have come together in an undeclared war on public education. The best description of this dynamic I’ve found is a book I’m reading called Educating The “RIGHT” Way: Markets, Standards, God, and Inequality, by Michael Apple. From what I see, this is mostly about ignorance on the part of teachers and a powerful political agenda on the part of policy makers. I write about it because I hate what I see. Keep telling your story.
Link | February 9th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Lisa Laser wrote,
Doug, Thank you for the book recommendation. I’ve ordered it from our small, independent bookstore. The anti-dibels website is http://vsse.net/dibels It has a number of great links as well such as http://www.susanohanian.org.
Lisa
Link | February 20th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
M.K. Cipolla wrote,
As a well seasoned teacher, I smelled a rat when those perky young things from our local ISD descended on our schools like avenging angels, armed with the governmental hype they were fed in their DIBELS training sessions. Having been a long time successful reading teacher I’ve combined both the theories of Ken and Yetta Goodman and the “old school” phonetic approach. As a college student in a Reading Fundamentals class, I remember how often the prof. told us that, “words are not made up of consistent, isolated sounds. It’s the combination of vowels and consonants that create a word.”
When I overheard a remedial session in which a tearful 1st grade student was trying to give the correct “sound” for the first letter of a rather ambiguous picture of a BAG and insisting that it didn’t sound like “buh” because “that’s how it sounds with “BUG”, my Irish temper was on overload.
There are lots of other assessment tools that are better than DIBELS. I smell the rat of money and politics. Check out who the National Reading Panel used to assess DIBELS before it was chosen?…… The authors of the test and their cronies at the U. of Oregon. hmmmm
Keep the politicians out of the classrooms!!!! Let us teach!!
Link | May 28th, 2006 at 10:13 am
Doug wrote,
If it moves, measure it. What a shame that people make money off of this crap. Kids suffer the ignorance of professionals who should know better.
Link | May 28th, 2006 at 10:56 am
Lin wrote,
I am a teacher, and a former newspaper reporter. Like many of you, I smelled a rat when I first encountered DIBELS. The stink has only grown worse. I’m eager to work on a freelance piece about the profiteering of the DIBELS folks off NCLB, and the uselessness of the test, as far as most reading teachers are concerned. Questions to be answered: has ANYONE done independent research on DIBELS? All I could find, last I looked on EBSCO, was studies done by the Univ. of Oregon folks. HARDLY independent.
Link | June 23rd, 2006 at 2:57 am
Doug wrote,
Lin, your question sent me searching. I found a paper by Michael Pressley that concludes: Based on available data, the fairest conclusion is that DIBELS mis-predicts reading performance on other assessments much of the time, and at best is a measure of who reads quickly without regard to whether the reader comprehends what is read.
Everyone is welcome to look through my DIBELS bookmark file.
Link | June 23rd, 2006 at 6:44 am
Ann wrote,
Dear Doug,
DIBELS is a personal nightmare come true. For years I’ve been telling people this bizarre story:
About 25 years ago, I was a graduate student at the University of Texas. I was in the Linguistics department, but took an assistantship in the Educational Psychology department. There was this PhEd candidate who was using the darndest experiment to determine reading comprehension-she instructed groups of freshman subjects to spend five minutes reading and studying a passage of a few hundred words. Then they were instructed to write down as much of the EXACT WORDING as they could recall (emphasis on EXACT WORDING).
Their written retelling was scored according to how much exact wording was recorded. The higher the exact wording, the higher the comprehension score. Students who produced disjointed, meaningless phrases consisting of bits of exact wording had high scores. Students who paraphrased or summarized the information received low scores because there was little exact wording, even though they captured the important ideas. In effect, the more accurate the essential retelling, the lower the alleged comprehension score.
I have often told this story as an example of the crazy thinking that comes out of academia sometimes. Now I wonder if the graduate student, who is now a PhEd, had anything to do with DIBELS.
(I won’t even go into the other graduate student who was doing an experiment on reading comprehension by measuring keyboard reaction time. The subject had to type a response with the left hand if a word flashed on the screen was spelled correctly, or with the right if it was incorrect. I guess he was absent the day they talked about brain hemisphere differences.)
Keep up the great blog.
Link | June 29th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
Karen wrote,
This is amazing. My sister is right now fighting with her school and this whole Dibels thing. I am a teacher who left the public school system for this very reason. The children are not being taught. I have homeschooled my children for the last three years. My niece was one of the children I taught. My husbands job has moved us so my sister put her in public school. She called me today frantic. My niece can read very well for a first grader. She knows all of her sounds but after just 30 days of school they are recommending interventions that she does not need. My niece is quiet and is not used to the rowdy classroom environment that she is in. What can we do?
Link | September 1st, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Doug wrote,
Hi Karen,
This isn’t exactly an advice column, but I won’t let that stop me from handing some out - since you’re asking. As I see it, your sister has 3 choices. She can capitulate, flee, or fight.
If she wants to play along she can visit the DIBELS website, download the test materials and drill your niece with nonsense words. Oh, but that’s what they’ll do at the school, so she probably doesn’t need to bother. She can find a private school, or a charter school, or homeschool her daughter herself. Or she could visit the DIBELS Clearinghouse and bone up on what the testing craze is all about and then make a pain in the ass of herself at school board meetings. She might want to do any combination of those things, come to think of it.
Sorry, if that isn’t helpful enough. We’re all in this together. I’m going to write another article on this subject in the near future. Check back. I may have some more ideas.
Link | September 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Travis wrote,
We use the DIBELS at the school I’m with but it’s feeling like we are phasing it out. The results of DIBELS have been: Fear and anxiety amongst parents and educators around reading instruction, professional development that teaches only fluency strategies, a bogus reading program adoption that undermines our research based collaborative efforts, and worst-children who think that reading is a race. In the classrooms of my fine colleagues and I, we encourage our students to slow down and enjoy reading, to discusss strategies, questions and connections, to choose material based on interest and self-assessed ability, and to THINK. I am so thankful for our administrative changes that have allowed us to move from a reading first school to a children first school. When I started the school year, I heard stories about what reading is from some students that were at a DIBELS driven school last year that made me cringe: “It’s about reading every word right and speeding up” “I was in a group where we practiced reading fast and skipping words we didn’t know right away” “I got over 200 WPM” These are actual quotes from 8 year olds. It seems like to much snake oil can make you really sick; just like mercury can. Thanks for the thoughful posting and insight. I heard there were some publications of emails between the DIBELS proponents and McGraw Hill publishers that would show the real motivation behind the movement ($ as always).
Link | October 28th, 2006 at 10:23 am
Sarah wrote,
So, after reading all of this, I’m wondering if any of you have read any of the research on reading fluency. I’m also convinced that you do not truly understand what DIBELS is attempting to measure. It’s like getting your temperature taken at the doctor. It tells you when something is wrong, it does not tell you what is wrong or what to do to fix it. That’s not its purpose. The reliability and validity of these measures goes back 20 years.
Additionally, DIBELS are downloadable for free! Roland’s purpose is to get this great information out to everyone. You have to know where kids are to know when to intervene.
Reading fluency does not equal reading speed. The idea that you’re teaching kids to speed read is ridiculous. They will do that if you let them and make them think that is the goal. I teach kids that their best reading is not speed reading. I stop them if they are speed reading on DIBELS assesments. The faster they read does not get them a better outcome. 140 words a minute is not speed reading.
This assessment will provide you with more useful instructional data than your state accountability test ever will.
I know that I will not change any opinions here, I just hope that someone will take some time to read the true research on this topic, not just opinions by people that do not agree with teaching decoding to kids in an explicit manner. That’s the only time I’ve heard people complain. Also, look at your kids’ data. DIBELS tells you which kids are poor readers. It’s not far off. I’d love to have more discussions with anyone on this topic. We don’t have to agree to learn from each other.
One more thing… I hope that the people consulted to help with any government publication are the lead researchers in their fields.
PS. Students will feel good when they know how to read!
Link | November 1st, 2006 at 5:57 pm
Pat Duran wrote,
I was horrified to hear my principal say that all students in our Denver K-5 public school would be ‘DIBELled’, and she had a paraprofessional, who should have been working in classrooms, do just that. Now I am expected to continually ‘DIBEL’ my kids who turned out to be in one of the ‘at risk’ groups. I already knew they were at risk from the DRA II and from all of the other things I do as a good teacher. I’m not doing anything differently because of this DIBELs test, and I’m actually NOT doing the followup testing until she demands that I do it. I understand our district is going whole hog on DIBELS next year, so I’m writing the Chief Academic Officer and asking him to read the book ‘The Truth About Dibels,’by Kenneth Goodman.
Link | November 19th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Sarah wrote,
I highly recommend reading “The Truth About DIBELS” because anyone who is actually familiar with the assessment will realize that the book is full of mistakes. First of all, it indicates that DIBELS is meant as only a progress monitoring tool. Then it goes on in the next sentence to describe that as a “thermometer.” Anyone with a day of training in measurement knows that the “thermometer” analogy refers to screening. If you use DIBELS incorrectly, of course you will get horrible things happening in your district. I tell all my schools to teach kids NOT to speed read. That’s not the purpose. Stop the test and start over at the next paragraph if the student is speed reading. That’s not the point. DIBELS is not supposed to be a curriculum. It’s not supposed to tell you everything you ever need to know. It’s supposed to measure an indicator of reading skill. It’s a thermometer. If you have a fever, you’re probably sick. If you stick the thermometer under hot water or a blow dryer, you don’t do youself any good. That doesn’t mean that stop taking temperatures to see how we’re doing. Use it for what it’s meant for, not for anything else. Use it right. And, for goodness sake, use the data to inform instruction (and that doesn’t mean as a curriculum). It works. I’ve seen it firsthand in more than one school. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. We’re all just here to do what’s best for kids, including Roland and Ruth. Why can’t we just agree that both sides have some valid arguments and work together to make sure that ALL kids are taught to read. We don’t have to fight about how to get it done. I think the one thing we do know is that one way doesn’t work for all kids. Our time would be much better spent trying to figure out how to improve what we have.
PS. If you haven’t taught every kid to read proficiently yet, you should be happy to get every piece of data you can get your hands on…especially data with the amount of predictive validity the DIBELS have.
Link | December 1st, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Sarah Mcintosh Puglisi wrote,
In my humble opinion the baby went out with the bathwater a long time ago.At least in literacy as seen since NCLB.
The “why can’t we all get along” talk while very sincere and sounding lovely on the surface is really unfortunate. For it eases around a clear understanding of what’s really going on here.Read from the top down just on this post…this is a very angst filled and very instructive piece on what DIBELS is generating being put in “place”. At some point we must as adults accept it’s not going to be resolved by holding hands and singing “I’d like to teach the world to read in perfect harmony.” Wish it could be as easily done, as teachers can be as likely to acquiesce to just get along as any on earth, as strongly as they are shown in desiring stability and just being nice (as the “data” shows teachers are )something must be wrong here, really wrong here, or it would all be proceeding along so nicely towards perfect literacy.
Instead you hear teachers saying so clearly this isn’t working. It’s not generated, I don’t think, from a place that’s about not wanting to inform instruction. You know I find that rather hurtful actually to instructor integrity. I think contained there is a kind of implication teachers are not really that involved in using data….as if one isn’t the most concerned in the picture about getting the job done as effectively as possible. I find that a rather disturbing administrative construct. I don’t see this as “just another tool”, I haven’t seen it implanted as “just another thing to choose”. It appears to be a kind of mandated systematic emetic used to rid us of all vestiges of tools we have used and would like to again employ-again see Noon above.
I can’t teach my students to read in the present system imposed upon them in these programatic take-overs. At least not to the level I once could.. I can however chant like a DI monkey…and spend inordinate amounts of time testing, trying to reason with dictatorial leadership that is not accounting to anyone about these programmatic issues other than to imply anyone with another perspective lacks educated reasoning. I don’t buy into this.When you get too far away from meaning construction, something is wrong.DIBELS is always argued around this. When anyone will listen to you rather than imply you lack cognitive processing or professional ism.
I think that’s worthy of dialog, (what’s really going on) and I think it should be done together. Let’s listen to parents talk about schools and their children. They certainly aren’t praising DIBELS are they? I haven’t heard that shout out …
If one is mandated, monitored, not included in decisions, relegated to the flunky role …as teachers are so obviously reporting connected with this measure and it’s use, it’s not a matter of waking one day pulling out the thermometer and getting a read on how things are going. In fact it might be more comparable to having to take that reading , no matter what ,at the same time five times a day everyday sick or well to derive a nice data table-meanwhile children have some other issues in play not on that table-and then excuse this with….hey, it might detect a problem. Yes it might.
So could a multitude of other ways.DIBELS has proported something that better minds than mine and some I respect greatly, have discussed clearly concerning it’s drawbacks and pointed toward other ways to go. And there is a world to read on fluency….including valid concerns about a disconnect to meaning making.The best oral reader I ever heard regularly performed poorly on DIBELS and she, my daughter, is headed to Any School She Wants….but she read with timing, with expression, pacing, emphasis and wasn’t trained to read orally like a bat out of hell. And that really isn’t an invalid concern.
PS.If you have used this in some test setting, say in the entire city of Chicago, and thus taught every child to proficiency using the DIBELS…would you place that data here. That might be compelling.That might be a piece of handy data.
You have to love…
“Yeah. A snapshot of the back of each kid’s head.”
“Hey. Their scores are up. Don’t complain. Just keep doing what you do.”
Link | December 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pm
mom of 4 boys wrote,
I am so glad to come across your blog, 3 of my 4 sons have gone through this Dibels testing, when they came home and told me about it, I had a hard time gripping that they would actually have my kids read words without meaning. My husband and I didn’t even talk to our kids like that when they were babies and now they are suppose to read like that? At the teacher conference I asked about it and they showed me a line chart that was suppose to mean something but I couldn’t get over the fact that their real word were above average and their nonsense words were below level, they were asking me to put my kids in remedial reading!? WHAT?! Because my kids are bad at nonsense words? Needless to say all 4 boys are now being home schooled, if I wanted them to sound like idiots I would have talked to them as idiots, which is what that test made them feel like….. HINT to the schools stop breaking our kids down and start building them up, over testing is breaking them down and this Dibels test is just idiotic. Phonics work with some words but not all, and that is all it test is phonics, another point is the fact one of my sons is parially deaf how could you even get an accurate sound test on that? Because no matter what other say it does not test reading proficiency,it does not test on the range of vocabulary, nor does it test reading ability. For those of you who support it, take the test in the time allowed in the schools and see how you score, see how smart you feel afterwards and during the testing remember how you feel saying these words out loud. Then come tell me it will help my children read better and it will help them reach their goals in life.
I think my eldest son (age 12) said it best “If this nonsense, is what the government thinks we need to know ….. then maybe they need to go back to school to.”
Link | December 5th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Marco Polo wrote,
Though over 13 years old, Aronowitz and Giroux’s Education Still Under Siege has greatly helped me to understand the present situation. Chapter 3 “The Literacy Crisi” should be read in conjunction with Michael Apple’s chapter “The Politics of Common Sense” in Giroux and McLaren’s Critical Pedagogy, the State and Cutural Struggle). I don’t think it’s about DIBELS or NCLB or whatever the acronym of the day happens to be. We need to step back and see the larger picture. These acronyms are illustrative of an ideological battle. Aronowitz and Giroux point out, “Now it must be admitted that the military model of learning works. Punishment is an effective tool of the reproduction of a hierarchical order, as well as one in which its subjects possess competencies. Of course, one would have to renounce critical thought as a goal of education or the effort to establish a democratic society in order to get kids to read and write under this regime.” A big problem with an ideological approach is that it leads to chaos and destruction, which the ideologues will blame on someone else. They never stick around to clean up their mess.
Link | December 14th, 2006 at 3:04 am
Lisa Laser wrote,
Sarah asks why can’t we all just get along…huh. Because my son was made to feel miserable over a test that is harmful and Roland and Ruth (first name basis sets off alarm bells) have not taken steps to prevent the tests misuse. While I think the test is at its core rotten, there is also the issue of misuse. Roland Goode has not seen fit to correct these misuses.
Link | December 29th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
Doug wrote,
It’s not within Roland Goode’s power to control the uses of this test. At this time, University of Oregon receives a dollar for each student whose data they process. They benefit from all uses. But my point is - What’s the use of a useless monitoring tool?
Lisa, your story has a lot of impact on people I’ve shared it with. Thank you.
Link | December 29th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
Lisa Laser wrote,
I’ve been having trouble posting here (firewall alert)- not sure if I’ll be able to so just a quick thank you for now.
Roland Goode has ben contacted by parents though and given no personal response. Given the trauma we’ve experienced I’d like him to find time to address the issues. But, yeah, useless is useless.
Lisa
Link | December 30th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Flintcitylimit wrote,
Our first use of DIBELS in sixth grade was not encouraging. My glib little Spanish-dominant student read rapidly as usual, and was rated “not at risk”– but he thinks “what’s season’s going” is normal English syntax; my Emotionally Impaired kid who is very reflective, usually fluent, and answers comprehension questions beautifully most of the time was feeling sluggish due to a medication change, read slowly and is “highly at risk.” And I am supposed to test the whole class every three weeks until school’s over. (My colleague just quit.)
Link | January 2nd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Jeff wrote,
Being a teacher in the year 2007 is sort of like being a doctor during the Civil War, before the discovery of bacteria…geez, why are all these soliders dying of horrible infections? Had those doctors known what they didn’t know, they would have sterilized their instruments. But eventually research led to the discovery of infectious bacteria…and we are all the better for that. It’s no different today in teaching. Why are all these kids not able to read by third grade? Hmmm? Could it be that they were not taught properly? Could it be that some kids need to have direct phonics instruction before learning to read, while others don’t? Anyone who totally dismisses the value of DIBELS and direct phonics instruction is as foolish as someone who totally dismisses whole language. There is room for both of these philosophies. Teachers need to stop teaching “DIBELS.” Teachers need to stop teaching “Whole Language.” Teachers need to start teaching KIDS. Then maybe we would start to see some real change.
Link | February 25th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Jackie wrote,
We’ve been dabbling in DIBELS for ~ 4 years now. Students in our school are assessed 4 times a year using DIBELS. In the beginning I was very skeptical, and I still have some reservations, but I think it can be a useful tool. It is less beneficial for informing my teaching if the assessments are administered by someone else (as is usually the case- and we are arguing against this practice). But as I’ve begun researching it more in depth I feel somewhat more confident as I learn more about the tests themselves. The nonsense word fluency is a sub-test that is only given to our first graders, and just once in the fall to second graders. I teach second grade, and each quarter the students are given 3 separate passages to read aloud cold, meaning these are unfamiliar texts being read for the first time. The middle score is used. I like that they are given 3 to read each time. It seems more fair than just a one shot deal. The passages increase in difficulty as the year progresses, though some of us wonder how well the readability levels of the passages match to actual grade level expectations. Some of the texts for first grade seem high (according to our grade 1 teachers) compared to the curriculum we teach. That being said, I’d rather hold the bar a little on the high end with the goal of meeting it, then feel falsely gratified by having lower standards that students meet effortlessly. The passages at second grade seem fairly challenging.
The retell fluency piece is one part I am more skeptical of because a student is scored based on the percentage of words they use to retell a passage in relation to the total number of words they read correctly. For a confident, fluent reader, who is able to accurately, yet concisely, retell the passage, that ratio goes down, thus lowering the score.
Okay, so given my reservations, I am willing to consider that the data I get can be used constructively. We used to give the DRA. It was very time consuming, but the comprehension was based on answers to questions about the story. Granted, these were often very low level questions on the bloom’s taxonomy. I’m still not willing to place a lot of merit on comprehension scores based solely on the RTF of a DIBELS, for all students, but I can see how the more open ended approach could reveal more about the level of a reader’s comprehension (if I were actually the one listening to the retell, and able to make an anecdotal comment to refer back to later. An RTF number/score in the absence of my observation of that student’s actual performance, is much less valuable to me). With the DRA, my students were assessed 4 times a year, sometimes using the same exact DRA story they had been tested on the previous quarter (if for example it had been above the child’s instructional level in fall, we would re-test to see if it was now the child’s instructional level in winter).
Re-reading a text for an assessment does not give the same caliber of information as having the student read a completely new and unfamiliar text.
I think there is potential for any assessment to be misused.
Ideally assessment is an ongoing process used to guide our instruction and the decisions we make about how to best meet a student’s needs. Unfortunately, these types of tests often provide a number, which among other things, is used to fill in a box on the report card. Unless balanced with teacher observations and accompanying narrative descriptions that communicate more specifically about a student’s strengths and challenges, these scores can have a negative impact on how a student’s reading performance is perceived.
In our school, we use the scores to place students in reading groups where they can receive instruction “at their level”, understanding that great care must be exercised to make these kinds of decisions. The DIBELS may not always match our daily perceptions of where the child seems to be, so we actually use the data as a preliminary sorting tool, and then adjust as we see fit. We are using it as only one piece of information, one snapshot of a student’s performance on a given day. We take into consideration other factors that might affect the student’s fluency on that day, like health issues, emotional state, etc. We also consider our knowledge of the child, look at how the child performs on a daily basis and on other less formal assessments. In this way students are assigned to reading groups that provide instruction designed to meet them where they are, and give them what they need to become stronger readers.
I think there are things that can be done to make DIBELS a fair and humane tool. For one thing, the child should be tested by the teacher they know and trust, not an unfamiliar educational assistant. I place much more stock in an assessment I administer myself. Unfortunately, in our school, there have been concerns about the DIBELS being administered by folks with little or no training. We have even found obvious errors in the reporting of the results when untrained testers are recording data inaccurately. That being said, I feel confident that I could give the assessment to my students myself, record the data accurately, make any anecdotal notes as may be useful for later reflection, and come up with a pretty good snapshot. By letting younger students know very clearly and up-front that in the NWF portion they are going to be reading nonsense words to see if they know the sounds letters can make in words, and making sure they know these are “pretend” words, we can help emerging readers relax when they see that the words have no meaning. We can get useful information from the NWF tests for our early readers, and we can target some of our instruction to address obvious gaps in a child’s phonemic awareness. I would not promote having students practice reading nonsense words, unless reading them in the context of real literature like Dr. Seuss, or say in a poem like the Jabberwocky. In these contexts, the nonsense words are fun and we enjoy playing with reading and saying them.
In our school we are striving for a balanced approach that provides emerging readers with a good foundation in all the skills needed to become readers as well as thinkers.
I believe that good teachers use assessments to guide their teaching. When the tests become instruments of intimidation, fear and oppression, then all are left behind. Like many who have posted previously, I do not favor using any assessment tool in a way that demoralizes a child, a teacher, or as the one and only way of evaluating a student’s growth or progress. It is not, perhaps, the DIBELS that is THE problem. Rather it is how decisions are being made, for teachers, schools, and ultimately for the direction we go from here. I continue to teach kids, as opposed to curriculum, and learn more with each year. I’ve been teaching in public schools for 20+ years, and welcome the day when the pendulum will inevitably swing back toward a more holistic, integrated approach, that considers the whole child, the whole brain, and the amazing diversity among thinkers and learners. I’m sure it will have a brand new name, but I’ll recognize it as being more humane, just the same.
Link | March 10th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Erica wrote,
Why is everyone so upset? They use nonsense words because some kids learn to remember words and “read” them but they actually dont know how to read! Using nonsense shows if they can use those same strategies with other words! For the record, Wilson Language does the same thing and they are a proven program based on years of research! I dont believe that the Retell Fluency works.. but I believe that the PSF, NWF, and ORF are true indicators of our students as readers. Whats wrong with assessing kids in 1 minute? Would you rather us give the Woodcock Johnson which is like a 3 day test for one child? We needed something quick and easy that teachers could give and DIBELS is it.
If we gave a 3 day test, parents would complain about that. Parents complain about everything, but arent willing to work with their child at home which is why we get all these students with low PSF in Kindergarten anyway!
You homeschool your kids because of a little 5 minute test that happens 3 times per year? Thats your stupidity. I guess you have lots of time and money because there is no way I would let DIBELS drive how I parent my kids!
Are people profiting from this assessment? YUP. Could there be some corruption there? YUP. But at the end of the day I finally have a quick assessment to give my students and progress monitor so that I can ensure that I catch them 6 weeks after putting them in a group, and not 6 years later. THANK YOU DIBELS!
Link | March 23rd, 2007 at 2:36 pm
A. Mercer wrote,
This goes out to Erica and Sarah who seem to think that they are assessing something when they are doing timed fluency tests. Hi, I’m a fifth grade teacher, I get the kids after your done teaching them to read. If you’ve done a good job, my job is easy. If you’ve taught them mostly decoding, my job is much harder because they will flunk their fifth grade tests which do not include any fluency assessments but do include things like comprehension, and vocabulary.
In spite of that, the reading program I use (not dibels) includes fluency as an assessment. My experience over the last ~10 years indicates that fluency sometimes has a correlation with poor comprehension, but that is not always the case. In fact, I’ve had fluent readers with serious comprehension problems, and non-fluent readers that have great comprehension.
But lets say that too small a sample. Even if your data is showing a relationship between fluency and comprehension, when you say that you improving fluency improves comprehension YOU are assigning a causation value on fluency. You are mistaking correlation for causation, which is a mistake that an undergraduate psychology major wouldn’t make. Let’s try for some professional discernment please.
Link | March 25th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
A. Mercer wrote,
Oh btw, I don’t think the options are Woodcock-Johnson vs. Diebels. We had a tool for assessing reading and analyzing student’s reading problems. It’s called a Running Record. It’s superior in that they read real books, with a real story. Instead of just looking at the “speed” you are supposed to analyze their mistakes–do they have phonics miscues, what are they? Are their miscues mistakes in meaning? This will let you effectively design interventions instead of just giving them more “practice” passages with no meaning.
Link | March 25th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Lisa Laser wrote,
I am still amazed at the venom homeschoolers receives. Erica, why are you so angry that some of us have chosen to homeschool? And why do you make such inane assumptions (we have lots of money, we homeschool over 5 minutes of testing, Dibels “drives” how we parent our kids)? This kind of thinking- or perhaps I should say the inability to think- is what makes true dialogue difficult. Faulty, and in my case wrong assumptions directed at us, don’t help. Although, again I am reminded by a teacher why we homeschool. My kids don’t need to be around teachers who can’t make basic logical arguments. And seem to think nastiness is a virtue.
Thank you to A. Mercer for also reminding me why we may someday send our children to public school. Kindness is priceless.
Link | March 27th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Doug Noon wrote,
Lisa, I shared your story - and the story that this comment thread has become - with my principal and another staff member who finds the test “useful.” I showed them The Truth About DIBELS, which includes your story, DIBELS: One Family’s Journey. They both told me that they’d had no idea that DIBELS scores were being abused in the ways that you describe. My prinicpal said that he’d show the articles to the central office administration.
I just read through your story again, and this quote resonated with me:The main issue for us is Joseph Elementary’s overreliance on standardized testing and teaching methods solely designed to support test success—the child’s well-being be damned. Your commitment to this issue speaks volumes. My own kids would be homeschooled, as well, if we faced the same obstacles. You might be interested in this Bill of Rights for Test Takers. Thank you for your advocacy for common sense and human decency.
Link | March 27th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
concerned parent wrote,
Dibel’s lets see there are so many things I could say but the most important thing is students are put under the gun when asked to read so many words per min. thats not fair to the students who are slow readers and still get the grade. I have 5 children in my home and they all read at there own pace, there shouldn’t be a test to determine weather or not my child should go to summer school or if they don’t attend summer school the will fail because of a speed reading test. If they were using it to help a student one thing but alot and I mean alot of school districts around the country are miss-using this and our children are the ones to suffer. Always remember one thing these children or our future if we play with there minds and make them think there at school just for one test to determine there passing or failing That Raises the Question What Do We Have To Look Forward To In The Future For Our Children? What kind of Future are we preparing them for? If this test is just to help your child out then these school systems are getting the wrong impression about this at least were I live in Buffalo,New York. Final thing is me and alot of the parents of our schools are taking it to another level we have contacted an Attorney in regards to this issue with Dibels testing crap and this Attorney is going to file suit against them for this miss-use and interference with our childrens rights to a proper education. Well I hope I didn’t upset anyone but I really felt my opinion and facts helped someone I know it helped me by letting it all out…. till next time take care an god bless..
Link | May 17th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Doug Noon wrote,
Concerned, thanks for your comment. I doubt it will upset anyone, since most people who’ve responded here already seem rather upset. The misuse of testing is a major gripe that I, and many people, share with you. I applaud your resistance to testing abuse.
Link | May 18th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Lisa Laser wrote,
The momentum is certainly building in regards to a fight to end DIBELS. I urge people to write their Senators (and as many Congressional leaders as you can) with their personal stories. It helps to put a face to the pain DIBELS is causing. And sign then send off the petition at http://www.educatorroundtable.org to people you know. You can also share your story there.
Also wanted to let you know that District Administrator is writing an article about DIBELS due in late summer. It should be available online.
Thank you for keeping this thread going.
Lisa Laser
Link | May 21st, 2007 at 3:53 pm
» Hello world! In Practice wrote,
[...] write about the hard truths, but also we’ll find humor in the impossibilities and improbabilities of our jobs, and [...]
Link | September 5th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
lora wrote,
Ken Goodman can only do so much. Professional educators have to stop marching lock step and acting as if we are victims of the system.
Think about it-NCLB requires state tests that statistically result in your school’s failure, are you being asked to write mission and goals statements, what about Professional Learning Communities? How’s your quality service coming along? Are curriculum mapping to be high track, medium or low track?
Has anyone noticed that lately your hours of committee work seem to be focused on churning out a marketing portfolio instead of helping kids? You may be right. Privatization is happening. If your school looks profitable, eventually a charter or other corporate agency might invest in your kids, so keep pushing for ways to improve your production line and turn those so called students into shiny new products…better polish that resume while you’re at it
Link | March 8th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Doug Noon wrote,
This, from Iora, was a comment worth thinking about. Too bad the link back to the comment’s author is a dead-end.
Link | March 8th, 2008 at 7:36 pm