Comments on: What the Known Demands http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/ (bôr'dər-lănd') n. Located on or near a frontier. An indeterminate area or condition. Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:31:36 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Borderland » Reality Check http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/comment-page-1/#comment-26617 Borderland » Reality Check Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:45:05 +0000 http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/#comment-26617 [...] The man’s story is a cascade of successive blunders. Little, seemingly insignificant mistakes multiply into a very large and ultimately fatal consequence. We don’t feel sorry for him. He had it coming. His story reminds me, again, that having information isn’t the same as knowing what to do. [...] [...] The man’s story is a cascade of successive blunders. Little, seemingly insignificant mistakes multiply into a very large and ultimately fatal consequence. We don’t feel sorry for him. He had it coming. His story reminds me, again, that having information isn’t the same as knowing what to do. [...]

]]> By: Bill Kerr http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/comment-page-1/#comment-7210 Bill Kerr Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:36 +0000 http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/#comment-7210 Hi Doug, Some notes about <a href='http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2006/08/ascending-from-abstract-to-concrete.html' rel="nofollow"> ascending from the abstract</a> to the concrete at my blog. You are right about the Marxist lineage. Hi Doug,
Some notes about ascending from the abstract to the concrete at my blog. You are right about the Marxist lineage.

]]> By: Doug http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/comment-page-1/#comment-7076 Doug Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:03:31 +0000 http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/#comment-7076 Bill - a provocative comment. Thanks. I googled for "<a style="text-decoration:underline"; href="http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hs=S5Z&hl=en&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=ascending+from+the+abstract+to+the+concrete&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images">ascending from the abstract to the concrete</a>" and turned up some new reading about Marxism that I look forward to getting back to later. Your question about whether there is an educational metaphor in any of this suggests a postulate, which is that <strong>There is always an educational metaphor.</strong> Any time we enter the classroom we are confronted with the problem of choosing. Your application of the story to curriculum works perfectly. I don't know about anyone else, but I am aware of having to "retrieve the situation" in the classroom more frequently as the years go by. What does <em>that</em> say? Am I "slipping?" Do I see a larger problem? Maybe I'm simply amusing myself with little experiments. Could be all of the above, too. Bill – a provocative comment. Thanks. I googled for “ascending from the abstract to the concrete” and turned up some new reading about Marxism that I look forward to getting back to later.

Your question about whether there is an educational metaphor in any of this suggests a postulate, which is that There is always an educational metaphor.

Any time we enter the classroom we are confronted with the problem of choosing. Your application of the story to curriculum works perfectly. I don’t know about anyone else, but I am aware of having to “retrieve the situation” in the classroom more frequently as the years go by. What does that say? Am I “slipping?” Do I see a larger problem? Maybe I’m simply amusing myself with little experiments. Could be all of the above, too.

]]> By: Bill Kerr http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/comment-page-1/#comment-7073 Bill Kerr Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:22:00 +0000 http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/#comment-7073 hi doug, I came back to read this a second time because it's such a good story - thanks It made me think of a couple of things: - the phrase, "ascending from the abstract to the concrete", which is one I was meaning to revisit - is there an educational metaphor here? Your truck on the slimy road is like a curriculum manifesto injected into the uncertain terrain of Schools. Your retrieval of the situation is like an experienced teacher adapting to the general truths of that manifesto and making it perform in practice? (not sure that it works) hi doug,

I came back to read this a second time because it’s such a good story – thanks

It made me think of a couple of things:
- the phrase, “ascending from the abstract to the concrete”, which is one I was meaning to revisit
- is there an educational metaphor here? Your truck on the slimy road is like a curriculum manifesto injected into the uncertain terrain of Schools. Your retrieval of the situation is like an experienced teacher adapting to the general truths of that manifesto and making it perform in practice? (not sure that it works)

]]> By: Doug http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/comment-page-1/#comment-6926 Doug Sat, 05 Aug 2006 01:18:41 +0000 http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2006/08/02/what-the-known-demands/#comment-6926 Marco, In your blog post about the book, Practice Makes Practice, you left this provocative quote: <em>Jack believed experience was a problem of already possessing knowledge, not the process by which this knowledge is constructed, interpreted, and transformed. Jack could not conceive of how one comes to know....The problem was that Jack had borrowed a discourse that was incapable of doing anything other than positioning experience as the ground of knowledge. Such a discourse would not help him with the complications he lived.</em> I enjoy reading ethnographies, and I hope to find this one in the library next time I'm there. The problem of forming useful generalizations from experience is a core problem for constructivist pedagogy. I'd like to believe that the 'social' part of social constructivism helps to smooth over misconceptions and keep people pointed in the right direction. But, still, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary, with my own experience an immediate case in point. Thanks for the book referral. Marco,
In your blog post about the book, Practice Makes Practice, you left this provocative quote:

Jack believed experience was a problem of already possessing knowledge, not the process by which this knowledge is constructed, interpreted, and transformed. Jack could not conceive of how one comes to know….The problem was that Jack had borrowed a discourse that was incapable of doing anything other than positioning experience as the ground of knowledge. Such a discourse would not help him with the complications he lived.

I enjoy reading ethnographies, and I hope to find this one in the library next time I’m there. The problem of forming useful generalizations from experience is a core problem for constructivist pedagogy. I’d like to believe that the ‘social’ part of social constructivism helps to smooth over misconceptions and keep people pointed in the right direction. But, still, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary, with my own experience an immediate case in point.

Thanks for the book referral.

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