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	<title>Comments on: Class Not Dismissed</title>
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	<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/05/26/class-not-dismissed/</link>
	<description>(bôr&#039;dər-lănd&#039;) n. Located on or near a frontier. An indeterminate area or condition.</description>
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		<title>By: The Urban Scientist</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/05/26/class-not-dismissed/comment-page-1/#comment-91548</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urban Scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=478#comment-91548</guid>
		<description>I see amazing similarities between Paul Willis&#039; ideas - Learning to Labor and Haberman&#039;s Pedagogy of Poverty.  It is an (un)conscious way to teaching and relating to students that only reinforces attitudes of helplessness, the need for &#039;special&#039; programs for poor urban school children - in the States, and other behaviors/attitudes that discourage people from becoming critical thinkers, civically engaged, upwardly mobile, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see amazing similarities between Paul Willis&#8217; ideas &#8211; Learning to Labor and Haberman&#8217;s Pedagogy of Poverty.  It is an (un)conscious way to teaching and relating to students that only reinforces attitudes of helplessness, the need for &#8217;special&#8217; programs for poor urban school children &#8211; in the States, and other behaviors/attitudes that discourage people from becoming critical thinkers, civically engaged, upwardly mobile, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Noon</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/05/26/class-not-dismissed/comment-page-1/#comment-91507</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 04:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=478#comment-91507</guid>
		<description>Jeanne, thanks for your comment. When you say, &lt;em&gt;&quot;I get bossed around at social events with lots of middle and owning class folks, and I am often treated as if I’m hired help,&quot;&lt;/em&gt; you describe some of my own feelings as a public school teacher. 

I&#039;ve taught long enough to have learned I shouldn&#039;t jump to conclusions about the brightness of anyone&#039;s future based on what they do in elementary school. I&#039;ve seen too many examples of both success and difficulty that I would have never expected. (&#039;Failure&#039; is a word I can&#039;t even begin to comprehend.) So I, and I think most teachers do the same, peddle hope. I try to package it, make it real for kids, show them the way, and build a bridge from here to there no matter what seems to be in the way. 

I&#039;ve been accused by people who know me well of looking too hard at my shortcomings, so maybe I leave the wrong impression sometimes. I don&#039;t see much gain in celebrating my successes when they seem to come easily. A lot of kids who I thought I&#039;d lost, or never connected with, have come back to tell me thanks. It&#039;s humbling. But I know there are a lot of other kids that I&#039;ve missed the mark with. I&#039;m not just saying it, when I tell them to work hard and be nice. They don&#039;t all hear it, even though I think those qualities are critically important. I&#039;m not lying so much as I&#039;m withholding commentary on a lot of negative things I know many of them struggle with. Who needs to have their nose rubbed in the fact that they got handed less of a chance than the next person? 

I went to a low-rung state school, too. And yet, I&#039;m happy with the home and family that I&#039;ve had a hand in raising.  I think that life is mostly about making our dreams come true, but I&#039;ve also been lucky enough to be able to say that. If I teach my students nothing else, I want them to believe that they are capable of doing, and &lt;em&gt;being&lt;/em&gt; whatever they want to be. It&#039;s a lesson that they can carry with them anywhere, and for as long as they care to. My question now is about what part I play, beyond the &quot;giving someone hope&quot; part, in even-ing the playing field, or conversely, in promoting a myth. 

Hope is always a good thing. But strategy and luck are important, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeanne, thanks for your comment. When you say, <em>&#8220;I get bossed around at social events with lots of middle and owning class folks, and I am often treated as if I’m hired help,&#8221;</em> you describe some of my own feelings as a public school teacher. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve taught long enough to have learned I shouldn&#8217;t jump to conclusions about the brightness of anyone&#8217;s future based on what they do in elementary school. I&#8217;ve seen too many examples of both success and difficulty that I would have never expected. (&#8216;Failure&#8217; is a word I can&#8217;t even begin to comprehend.) So I, and I think most teachers do the same, peddle hope. I try to package it, make it real for kids, show them the way, and build a bridge from here to there no matter what seems to be in the way. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been accused by people who know me well of looking too hard at my shortcomings, so maybe I leave the wrong impression sometimes. I don&#8217;t see much gain in celebrating my successes when they seem to come easily. A lot of kids who I thought I&#8217;d lost, or never connected with, have come back to tell me thanks. It&#8217;s humbling. But I know there are a lot of other kids that I&#8217;ve missed the mark with. I&#8217;m not just saying it, when I tell them to work hard and be nice. They don&#8217;t all hear it, even though I think those qualities are critically important. I&#8217;m not lying so much as I&#8217;m withholding commentary on a lot of negative things I know many of them struggle with. Who needs to have their nose rubbed in the fact that they got handed less of a chance than the next person? </p>
<p>I went to a low-rung state school, too. And yet, I&#8217;m happy with the home and family that I&#8217;ve had a hand in raising.  I think that life is mostly about making our dreams come true, but I&#8217;ve also been lucky enough to be able to say that. If I teach my students nothing else, I want them to believe that they are capable of doing, and <em>being</em> whatever they want to be. It&#8217;s a lesson that they can carry with them anywhere, and for as long as they care to. My question now is about what part I play, beyond the &#8220;giving someone hope&#8221; part, in even-ing the playing field, or conversely, in promoting a myth. </p>
<p>Hope is always a good thing. But strategy and luck are important, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeanne</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/05/26/class-not-dismissed/comment-page-1/#comment-91501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=478#comment-91501</guid>
		<description>I came to your site from Jane&#039;s, which I read regularly. I&#039;m not an educator--I read your piece as a person who, at 40, is just realizing the extent social class has impacted my life. I grew up working class and was sent to wood shop and typing classes in junior high. I went to a vo-tech high school for my first year in HS.

So I read your blog auto-biographically.

And I wonder now if I should be upset with the teachers who said they believed in me. I&#039;m finding that despite the fact that I now have a college degree (with honors, gotten just this past December at a low-rung state school), people can still tell that I grew up working class and treat me as such. People who went to tonier institutions get jobs for which I&#039;m very qualified and for which I&#039;m possibly better suited because of my work ethic. I get bossed around at social events with lots of middle and owning class folks, and I am often treated as if I&#039;m hired help.

But is any of this my teachers&#039; fault? I don&#039;t think so.

Hope is the only way out and you, as a teacher, are supremely qualified to give someone hope who has no other source. It&#039;s not your fault that hope can seem like a lie because the system is hell-bent on keeping people in their proper places.

Though I sure do hear that it feels like you&#039;re lying to kids.

I appreciate you asking the questions and talking about it, because until we talk about it, we&#039;re not going to change anything. I&#039;ll keep checking back here too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came to your site from Jane&#8217;s, which I read regularly. I&#8217;m not an educator&#8211;I read your piece as a person who, at 40, is just realizing the extent social class has impacted my life. I grew up working class and was sent to wood shop and typing classes in junior high. I went to a vo-tech high school for my first year in HS.</p>
<p>So I read your blog auto-biographically.</p>
<p>And I wonder now if I should be upset with the teachers who said they believed in me. I&#8217;m finding that despite the fact that I now have a college degree (with honors, gotten just this past December at a low-rung state school), people can still tell that I grew up working class and treat me as such. People who went to tonier institutions get jobs for which I&#8217;m very qualified and for which I&#8217;m possibly better suited because of my work ethic. I get bossed around at social events with lots of middle and owning class folks, and I am often treated as if I&#8217;m hired help.</p>
<p>But is any of this my teachers&#8217; fault? I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>Hope is the only way out and you, as a teacher, are supremely qualified to give someone hope who has no other source. It&#8217;s not your fault that hope can seem like a lie because the system is hell-bent on keeping people in their proper places.</p>
<p>Though I sure do hear that it feels like you&#8217;re lying to kids.</p>
<p>I appreciate you asking the questions and talking about it, because until we talk about it, we&#8217;re not going to change anything. I&#8217;ll keep checking back here too.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Noon</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/05/26/class-not-dismissed/comment-page-1/#comment-91291</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=478#comment-91291</guid>
		<description>Jane, thanks for checking in here. I&#039;ve recently (just the last few weeks) discovered your blog, and am grateful for it, since you&#039;ve spent a little more time thinking about this issue than I have. The reading list you&#039;ve provided will come in handy. 

Deer Hunting with Jesus was entertaining, and it did explain a few things that I&#039;ve observed over the last couple of years, but it also left me feeling a little discouraged since just about everyone is indicted in the end, with little emphasis on what we can concretely do to make things better other than to start talking to each other - which is generally good advice no matter what the issue may be. I plan to say something about it, but I also picked up Thomas Frank&#039;s &quot;What&#039;s the Matter with Kansas?&quot; which explores the same question Bageant asks about why working class people vote with Republicans, against their own economic interest. I figured it might be more interesting to think about both books at once than to react to each of them separately, so I&#039;m not saying much about Deer Hunting yet.

I have no trouble believing that a group of teachers would report that they&#039;ve not thought about this very deeply, because we tend to focus on practical issues at work. Who has time to have such a conversation? And then, what are we going to do about it? The blog, though, and the classroom, are great places for me to work through some of the questions I have. Thanks for your interest. Feel free to comment again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, thanks for checking in here. I&#8217;ve recently (just the last few weeks) discovered your blog, and am grateful for it, since you&#8217;ve spent a little more time thinking about this issue than I have. The reading list you&#8217;ve provided will come in handy. </p>
<p>Deer Hunting with Jesus was entertaining, and it did explain a few things that I&#8217;ve observed over the last couple of years, but it also left me feeling a little discouraged since just about everyone is indicted in the end, with little emphasis on what we can concretely do to make things better other than to start talking to each other &#8211; which is generally good advice no matter what the issue may be. I plan to say something about it, but I also picked up Thomas Frank&#8217;s &#8220;What&#8217;s the Matter with Kansas?&#8221; which explores the same question Bageant asks about why working class people vote with Republicans, against their own economic interest. I figured it might be more interesting to think about both books at once than to react to each of them separately, so I&#8217;m not saying much about Deer Hunting yet.</p>
<p>I have no trouble believing that a group of teachers would report that they&#8217;ve not thought about this very deeply, because we tend to focus on practical issues at work. Who has time to have such a conversation? And then, what are we going to do about it? The blog, though, and the classroom, are great places for me to work through some of the questions I have. Thanks for your interest. Feel free to comment again.</p>
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		<title>By: Teaching Working Class Kids &#171; Education and Class</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/05/26/class-not-dismissed/comment-page-1/#comment-91287</link>
		<dc:creator>Teaching Working Class Kids &#171; Education and Class</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=478#comment-91287</guid>
		<description>[...] 12, 2008   Doug, over at Borderland, writes at the end of the year with his 6th graders about class and social reproduction, about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 12, 2008   Doug, over at Borderland, writes at the end of the year with his 6th graders about class and social reproduction, about [...]</p>
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