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	<title>Comments on: Teaching for Change in a Culture of Compliance</title>
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	<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/10/23/teaching-for-change-in-a-culture-of-compliance/</link>
	<description>(bôr&#039;dər-lănd&#039;) n. Located on or near a frontier. An indeterminate area or condition.</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Noon</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/10/23/teaching-for-change-in-a-culture-of-compliance/comment-page-1/#comment-107408</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=744#comment-107408</guid>
		<description>lucychili, I agree that bottom up thinking has to be included in any effort to build support for constructive change. The problem, of course, is in organizing people to give them even a sense of being, or seeing themselves as capable of action. How that would work, given existing power structures, I can&#039;t imagine.  

I like the idea of surveying parents and family members, and processing responses. It&#039;s a step toward an ethnographic look at community, which is something I&#039;ve thought about on and off for a long time. It would be doable, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lucychili, I agree that bottom up thinking has to be included in any effort to build support for constructive change. The problem, of course, is in organizing people to give them even a sense of being, or seeing themselves as capable of action. How that would work, given existing power structures, I can&#8217;t imagine.  </p>
<p>I like the idea of surveying parents and family members, and processing responses. It&#8217;s a step toward an ethnographic look at community, which is something I&#8217;ve thought about on and off for a long time. It would be doable, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: lucychili</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/10/23/teaching-for-change-in-a-culture-of-compliance/comment-page-1/#comment-107283</link>
		<dc:creator>lucychili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=744#comment-107283</guid>
		<description>I have been wondering if it is possible to relook at the debating opportunities in schools to see if there is a way to cover challenging questions like a team of researchers, anthropologists (Wesch flavoured, or Kat Jungnickel flavoured.)
rather than in a win lose binary debate. 

I thought it might be possible to develop a game through which students could explore the process of research or collaborative inquiry to make a result. Also including querying or surveying parents and processing responses. 

In my head the idea of developing those processes in schools means that the class could be the engine room for making proposals about the form or outcome of their learning. eg. Develop a proposal for what to do with a specific patch of school grounds, or a local historic site, or a building renovation.

I thought that this kind of articulation could make it possible for schools to develop and practice techniques and dialogue which would make it possible for them to make authoritative proposals for their own regional or cultural focus in school. ie Its that kind of rigor which would make it attractive for edu departments to find the best way forward through listening to the schools and their communities and students rather than relying on mass testing as the source for authoritative outcomes?
This is possibly waffle but i feel like there is something in the relationship with community and students which makes the school the place where policy and pedagogy could be more tailored to local needs. 

It is possible this happens already it just feels like there is a need for some bottom up thinking to cut through the testing to find something more authentic and individual for students to aim for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been wondering if it is possible to relook at the debating opportunities in schools to see if there is a way to cover challenging questions like a team of researchers, anthropologists (Wesch flavoured, or Kat Jungnickel flavoured.)<br />
rather than in a win lose binary debate. </p>
<p>I thought it might be possible to develop a game through which students could explore the process of research or collaborative inquiry to make a result. Also including querying or surveying parents and processing responses. </p>
<p>In my head the idea of developing those processes in schools means that the class could be the engine room for making proposals about the form or outcome of their learning. eg. Develop a proposal for what to do with a specific patch of school grounds, or a local historic site, or a building renovation.</p>
<p>I thought that this kind of articulation could make it possible for schools to develop and practice techniques and dialogue which would make it possible for them to make authoritative proposals for their own regional or cultural focus in school. ie Its that kind of rigor which would make it attractive for edu departments to find the best way forward through listening to the schools and their communities and students rather than relying on mass testing as the source for authoritative outcomes?<br />
This is possibly waffle but i feel like there is something in the relationship with community and students which makes the school the place where policy and pedagogy could be more tailored to local needs. </p>
<p>It is possible this happens already it just feels like there is a need for some bottom up thinking to cut through the testing to find something more authentic and individual for students to aim for.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Lee</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/10/23/teaching-for-change-in-a-culture-of-compliance/comment-page-1/#comment-107191</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=744#comment-107191</guid>
		<description>In response to your post, simply: amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to your post, simply: amen.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Noon</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/10/23/teaching-for-change-in-a-culture-of-compliance/comment-page-1/#comment-106888</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matt, there&#039;s not a lot for me to disagree with in what you&#039;ve said here. Skills and knowledge are prerequisite for success in any area, and responsibility for that falls on schools and parents, for the most part. But I see other social agents as sharing some responsibility, also. 

I don&#039;t agree that acknowledging the role of culture, class, history, or economics in how advantage is distributed in our society is necessarily antagonistic to the goals of an academic program, though. 

Your point about what social justice means, is well-taken. I see the same difficulty in discussing whole language philosophy and constructivism. For a quick exploration of what we mean by the term &#039;social justice&#039;, eduwonkette &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/eduwonkette/2008/04/what_is_social_justice_teachin.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wrote on this topic&lt;/a&gt; last spring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, there&#8217;s not a lot for me to disagree with in what you&#8217;ve said here. Skills and knowledge are prerequisite for success in any area, and responsibility for that falls on schools and parents, for the most part. But I see other social agents as sharing some responsibility, also. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree that acknowledging the role of culture, class, history, or economics in how advantage is distributed in our society is necessarily antagonistic to the goals of an academic program, though. </p>
<p>Your point about what social justice means, is well-taken. I see the same difficulty in discussing whole language philosophy and constructivism. For a quick exploration of what we mean by the term &#8217;social justice&#8217;, eduwonkette <a href="http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/eduwonkette/2008/04/what_is_social_justice_teachin.html" rel="nofollow">wrote on this topic</a> last spring.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Johnston</title>
		<link>http://borderland.northernattitude.org/2008/10/23/teaching-for-change-in-a-culture-of-compliance/comment-page-1/#comment-106879</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderland.northernattitude.org/?p=744#comment-106879</guid>
		<description>While I think you have put together a thoughtful peice about how you approach the concept of teaching for social justice, I wonder if you and other proponents of the doctrine (and yes, it is a doctrine that is taught in education schools among other places), can define what exactly you mean by social justice.  

My problem with the concept of teaching for social justice is that the phrase can mean anything and can, and does, mean something different to different people.  Simply the debate about the term and what it means can demonstrate that subjectivity.  

But the problem that conservatives like me have is not that teaching for social justice is necessarily a bad thing.  Rather, my concern is that in the rush to &quot;make things better through social justice&quot; we have forgotten to teach our children things like reading, writing, math, science (hard and soft), how to research and develop skils to really assess the world around them for themselves.  My belief is that schools that educate children will develop citizens who can bring about change because THEY see the problem, not because some teacher believes a given cause to be important or a given issue is socially injust.

Social justice is a slippery term and it is one that should be defined by an individual person as to what the term means to them, as I am sure that my definition of social justice is far different than yours.  What education should do, objectively, is teach children how to define that term for themselves, not be given the definition by someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I think you have put together a thoughtful peice about how you approach the concept of teaching for social justice, I wonder if you and other proponents of the doctrine (and yes, it is a doctrine that is taught in education schools among other places), can define what exactly you mean by social justice.  </p>
<p>My problem with the concept of teaching for social justice is that the phrase can mean anything and can, and does, mean something different to different people.  Simply the debate about the term and what it means can demonstrate that subjectivity.  </p>
<p>But the problem that conservatives like me have is not that teaching for social justice is necessarily a bad thing.  Rather, my concern is that in the rush to &#8220;make things better through social justice&#8221; we have forgotten to teach our children things like reading, writing, math, science (hard and soft), how to research and develop skils to really assess the world around them for themselves.  My belief is that schools that educate children will develop citizens who can bring about change because THEY see the problem, not because some teacher believes a given cause to be important or a given issue is socially injust.</p>
<p>Social justice is a slippery term and it is one that should be defined by an individual person as to what the term means to them, as I am sure that my definition of social justice is far different than yours.  What education should do, objectively, is teach children how to define that term for themselves, not be given the definition by someone else.</p>
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